Camp Fire Kids Protest Camp Cimarron’s Closing

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On the front page of The Oklahoman today is a picture of my son Brandon sitting on my lap and several other Camp Fire USA parents and kids that attended the Camp Fire USA Heart of Oklahoma Council meeting on March 20th.

Click to image to enlarge

The caption for the picture reads:

CAMPING OUT

Group tries to save site

Brandon Kerr, 11, sits in his father William Kerr’s lap with a sign during a silent protest at the Camp Fire USA Heart of Oklahoma Council meeting this week. Brandon and others attended the meeting to try to convince the group not to close Camp Cimarron this summer.

The caption points to the story on page 11A (front page of the Local & State section of The Oklahoman. The Oklahoman has posted the story on their website, Youths protest camp’s closing. Big Mike’s wife Regina Kerr (Big Mike is my brother and co-host of The Passionate America Show) was quoted in the story:

Regina Kerr has a son and daughter who attended the camp in previous years. She said she was frustrated about the manner in which the council handled the issue.

“They voted to close the camp, and we didn’t know anything about it,” said Kerr. “They gave us no warning. This was out of the blue.”

Kerr said children stood outside in winter weather conditions selling candy for the camp in January.

“They told them if they sold candy, they would open the camp,” sad Kerr. “They’re saying they teach leadership to these kids, but they’re not even setting an example.” (read the rest of the story)

In my opinion many of the Camp Fire USA Heart of Oklahoma Council Board of Directors need to resign. It was very obvious to me why the Camp Fire HOC has a budget shortfall, the board seems more interested in saving their own hides and not taking responsibility for the mess that they are responsible for. At the meeting they blamed everyone from former board members, Camp Fire Parents, and Camp Fire Kids for the Board’s problems

One of the most heart wenching events that took place at the meeting (after the News Channel 4 cameras left), a mother of a Camp Fire kid gave a passionate personal story about how she was sexually abused as a child. She said Camp Cimarron was her safe place to go to avoid the sexual abuse she received. She vowed to raise the money to purchase the camp if the council decided to place it up for sale. One of the members of the board replied, “I knew their was something wrong with her” while chuckling about the lady. This reaction by a board member was one of the most disturbing examples of what is wrong with this board.

There are some members of the board that are truly interested in saving Camp Fire and working with the parents to find a solution to this situation, however this is a small majority of the board.

Unless many members of the board resign or are replaced with people capable of saving the Oklahoma Camp Fire organization they are in jeopardy of losing their United Way funding. If they lose their United Way funding the council might as well close their doors. Many of the parents have made calls to the United Way and the Camp Fire National office requesting intervention in this matter. I believe the United Way should not give one more dime to support this council until major changes to the board are made. I hope the Camp Fire National office will step in and prevent this board from mortgaging the remaining properties and bankrupting the organization.

We are willing to work as hard as we can to save Camp Fire, but I refuse to give the HOC BOD one more dime until a competent board is in place.

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March 22nd, 2007

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Wild Bill

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Mar 22, 2007 5:37 pm
Major Media To Attend Camp Fire USA’s Heart of Oklahoma Council Meeting :
Mar 23, 2007 5:04 am
Right on the Right » Morning Links :
Mar 25, 2007 12:44 pm
PAS podcast March 24th, 2007 :
Sep 1, 2007 4:56 pm
Camp Fire USA Heart of Oklahoma Council Gives CC Riders 11 Days To Raise $71,844.33 Or They Will Sell Horses — Passionate America :

63 Comments

BigMike

1

Sounds to me like there is too much money spent on ‘over head’ and not enough money spent on THE KIDS! When i was a Camp Fire leader the durring the general meeting it was stated that $2800 on average had been spent on each club, the problem i had with that statement was we had only recieved a TOTAL of $53 form the council for the whole year. Obviously someone has some MATH difficulties.
March 22nd, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Wild Bill

2

They admitted during the meeting that they had no idea how to raise funds. I’m no expert at raising funds but I have many ideas on how they can improve their fund raising skills.
March 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pm
kerri

3

Ms. Kerr seems to be contradicting herself. She states “that the closing of camp came out of the blue” but later comments “the kids were told that if they sell candy, camp would be reopened’. No one ever told the kids that. In fact, the closing of Cimarron was voted on when the candy sale was winding down.
The heart wrenching story referred to was very inappropriate and should have never been shared in front of children and starangers. Did you also hear her say she didn’t care about Camp Fire, only Cimarron. Did you take note that none of the protesting kids raised their hand when polled by a board member about participating in a Camp Fire group of club? Did you hear the young man state that he did not sell candy because they were closing camp? As I stated earlier, the decision to close camp was made as the candy sale was ending. This young man never intended to sell.
The majority of the protestors have no desire to support Camp Fire only Cimarron. That was evident in their comments and responses.
I don’t believe anyone is pointing fingers for the difficulties Camp Fire is experiencing. Everyone needs to come together and work as a team to insure that the Camp Fire program is around for many more years. If there is no Camp Fire, there will be no Cimarron.
March 22nd, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Regina

4

Kerri,

You need to check your quotes, I didn’t say “reopened” and neither does the paper. Camp Fire Brochure told the kids how many units of candy to sale if they wanted free horsemanship classes at Camp Cimarron. How could Camp Fire claim they didn’t tell these kids to sale candy to go to Camp Cimarron?

Futhermore, there were at least 7 kids there that have participated in a club for the last 3 years. I disolved my club that these kids were in, because I could not justify to these kids how Camp Fire USA was behaving.

It was my son who stated he decided not to sale candy, and I admit it was for many reasons including the possible closure of camp. I was in a November Executive Committee meeting (by invitation) and during that meeting the board members asked the Interim Executive Director when they needed to make a decision about closing. The Interim Executive Director stated it needed to be done BEFORE candy information went out. As we all now know they ignored this and closed after the kids had sold candy.

If you know who I am, you should also know that I grew up as a Blue Bird in Camp Fire USA. I have volunteered many years at both camps and been a Camp Fire USA leader. I believe in this organization, however I have lost faith in this Board of Directors and their financial irresponsibe behaviors. This council needs to justify the $60,000 to $90,000 monthly expenses when membership is down to 900. The staffing overhead alone is killing this council.
March 22nd, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Wild Bill

5

Nice try kerri, now you are misquoting Mrs. Kerr, she did not say reopened, she said, “They told them if they sold candy, they would open the camp,”. The young man you are referring to is my nephew and he had every intention to sell candy like he did the year before. How do you inspire a child to sell candy to cover over expenditures by an incompetent board. His motivation to sell candy is to goto camp. He also understands that he will sell much more candy than the costs of covering his summer camp and that the board will use the extra money as it sees fit. What he did not expect was to sell candy exclusively to be flushed down the drain by incompetent decisions made by the board.

You and the board are ignorant if you believe we don’t care about Camp Fire and only Cimarron. We want to save Camp Fire and Cimarron and you expect us to believe that both goals cannot be achieved.

What do you get from Camp Fire? I suspect it is a paycheck. Our only request is that for our continued participation in Camp Fire is that our kids can goto summer camp where kids have gone for 66 years, Camp Cimarron. And we will raise as much money as we can toward that goal and if Camp reopens the board can use the remaining funds we raise to pay for appraisals of the other properties so that they might take out loans or sell them. Let’s stop trying to borrow our way out of this mess and instead fund raise our way out of this mess. We are the feet on the ground that can help you raise the needed funds, but instead you choose to ignore, misquote, and belittle us.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:02 pm
kerri

6

You suspect wrong “Wild Bill”!! I am a 40 year member of Camp Fire. I attended Camp Cimarron for 10 years as a camper and later as a counselor. I have been a leader since I was in college. I probably have more years in the program than most of the people protesting combined. I have never been employed by Camp Fire. But that was a good try!

Misquote…okay not reopen but open. However, to open means that it had to of been closed. It wasn’t closed at the time Regina stated this was told to her kid.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Wild Bill

7

Kerri did you attend the meeting? If so please to not tell me you think the board of directors is doing a good job. If you have been a member for 40 years then you should understand that membership has dropped to an all time low. Why do you think that is? Poor candy sales, Camp Cimarron, or and inept board of directors? Quit blaming the members for their lack of faith in this board and start looking at the board itself.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Jared

8

OK, to be perfectly clear. I am the 15 year old boy who stood up at the meeting and spoke. I have been in Camp Fire Heart of Oklahoma Council for 11 years. For everyone to be saying that I haven’t helped the council is wrong. My mother and father have taken their group with me and my sister to both camps to preform service projects. We made a path at DaKaNi, we’ve spread mulch, painted bathrooms, cleaned out the creek, and painted 22 picnic tables in the last 3 years.

On top of that we have stood out and sold more than our fair share of candy. When we lived in Arkansas we even sold candy for the Oklahoma City council. My parents have taken kids that were in their group to site sales to try to make sure everyone in their group sold their fair share.

I didn’t sale candy this year for three reasons. First of all we were having problems getting candy from the distributor. Mom went to get the candy to discover the distributor didn’t have enough for each person in our club to get their fair share. Second we were having problems getting site sales in our town. We live in Moore and have in the past sold best outside the WalMart Neighborhood Market. This location was not contacted for site sales this year. There was some kind of mix up about getting to sale here. Third reason was my father had an idea that they would close Cimarron even though it was in the candy handbook.

My mother decided to give the candy that was available to the kids in her group that really wanted to sale to go to camp. In doing this she decided that my sister and I wouldn’t sale. My father on finding out what was going on decided that he did not want to lead a Camp Fire group any longer.

I don’t know what to say about the board. I listened the other night and I heard that they can’t pay their bills. Why would you keep spending more money if you can’t pay your bills. They want to hire three more people. They also say they have no plans on selling Cimarron, but Daryl Markwell said he would rather keep taking out loans to hire a developement director? This makes no sense to me, all I know is Camp Fire is in trouble and most kids my age don’t know how bad it is, but after listening to the board I know that they need to spend less money!
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:54 pm
jason k.

9

Everyone that is reading these blogs should know that the people running this site are deleting posts with facts and information everyone should know. They only want you to hear their side. What does that tell you? THis post will probably be deleted!! ha
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Simon

10

Well, I don’t know what to think anymore. I see these comments and can’t understand why everyone can’t work together to solve this problem. I too am a long time member. 30 + years. I too sold candy. I may not have sold thousands of boxes, but I was taught that this was part of my service to Camp Fire. You are not being told you cannot go to camp. I understand credits are being allowed at another Oklahoma council camp. What a great way to meet other Camp Fire members, and other youth.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Wild Bill

11

Jason K. you are a lair I have not deleted on comment on this or any of the Camp Fire posts. Thank you fro spreading more of the lies that I am being accused of. I do have a spam filter and will check for any comments that may have been caught by it. I will restore any comments that are not spam.

Simon We want Camp Fire to succeed. We want to work with the council and have tried to get our questions answered when they gave us the run around or flat out lied to our face we called different media to help us. The media thought there was a story here and reported on it.

Should we join the Tulsa chapter of Camp Fire since you believe it would be a a great way to meet other Camp Fire members, and other youth? We are not against meeting other Camp Fire members, but I thought the reason we had a residential Camp is so our Camp Fire group could spend summer at our camp (much closer than Tulsa) and we could recruit new members for our Camp Fire organization. It’s very nice of Tulsa to offer us the chance to goto their camp. Why are we so wrong for trying to find a way to open Camp Cimarron?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Wild Bill

12

Jason K. I just checked the spam filter there are no comments that were caught by the spam filter. You might try clicking the submit button next time. Jason you will also notice I did not delete your comment, take that you liar.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Simon

13

I was not saying joining the Tulsa Council. Boy, you sure have a way of putting words in, I was simply saying they were offering the camp for our members for this year. Maybe you should do a site where people could sign up to volunteer their time to fix Cimarron. Have a state wide celebration where all those that have attended the camp could come together and work on it. I am sure if Cimarron is so important to so many people that you would have an outpouring of volunteers.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 pm
jason k.

14

Please explain then what happened to all of Nancy Kenderdine’s posts under the Camp Fire Exploiting Children article. Everyone of her posts are gone. I will be anxiously awaiting your response. I didn’t have any trouble clicking the submit button and why did you check the spam filter for me I think that was someone else that wanted to know why their blog didn’t show up. Better watch it when you name call.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Wild Bill

15

Good idea Simon it’s called Friends Of Cimarron. We already made a proposal and the board basically shouted us down at the meeting. Yeah they said they needed more information, but we all know that was just a delay tactic and they have no intention of accepting our proposal. And you talk about me spreading mis-information. What would you call accusing me of deleting comments? Ask your buddy Nancy why she removed her own comments and before she denies it remember I run this site and can show you all the logs on who did what.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Simon

16

My buddy Nancy? Who is Nancy?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Simon

17

My buddy Nancy? Who is Nancy? I am not sure.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Simon

18

Check your spam filter again
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Simon

19

Your Friends of Cimmaron ARE WRONG.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Simon

20

You run this site and put me on SPAM. WEll Spam you!!!!!!!!!!!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
kerri

21

i am on the phone with nancy and she did not intentionally delete comments. however, her last message was spam blocked three times and she did ask not to be notified of any more postings. could this have knocked the postings off?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Wild Bill

22

I didn’t put you in spam Simon the program does that automatically when you send so many comments in a very short period of time. All I have to do is check the spam filter and approve the comments like I just did and look 5 stupid comments by Simon.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:41 pm
heather roberts

23

THis website is definetly losing credibility! It’s okay for you to badmouth the board and anyone that is backing them but you can’t take it when facts are presented that go against what you want others to believe. I was worried this site might hurt Camp Fire but I think it has caused people to look deeper into what is going on. I have already received 3 phone calls tonight about how stupid you are acting. Get over yourself!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:49 pm
heather roberts

24

You spamed me too!!! What an idiot!!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Wild Bill

25

heather/kerri/jason you don’t need to get on the phone with the people that don’t like this website they are all using the same IP address. Do you have multiple personality disorder?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Wild Bill

26

Keep up your lies heather/jason/kerri I can turn or the website files to the media and show them what you guy/gals are up to. Just more evidence.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:55 pm
ShadowFox

27

lol!! He’s still using new names! Ooooh oooh, be a “Jessica” next! Jessica’s tend to be hot.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Simon

28

You are the reason Cimmmmmmarrrrron is DONE!!!!!!! You don’t care one bit about what you are saying. You must be on the ASD!!!!!!!!!!!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Wild Bill

29

That is funny Simon just like the board you blame Camp Fires problems on everyone else. :whistle:
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Wild Bill

30

Now I am the reason Cimarron is closing funny I did not find out about it closing until after the board closed it.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:04 pm
ShadowFox

31

He’s on the Anchorage School Directorship?!? I knew it! I knew you had an Alaskan accent Yukon Bill!
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Simon

32

If you would have been an advocate for Cimarron, and done your part, maybe it would be open. Remember, It is not just about money. It is about parental support. So, if you are a parent, you have to remeber that Camp Fire, along with the camps, they are Non Profit. Fees and such go to pay for the Horses, Pool, and utilities. So, as a parent, be willing to come out to camp and clean, move dirt, and shovel you know what. Otherwise, let it go. If you are not willing to help in a hands-on way, GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Wild Bill

33

Simon I have helped and I have offered to help read the comments before you start making childish arguments.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 pm
kerri

34

You know what guys, I think with all this passion expressed on this site Camp Fire just might pull through. I just want us all to pull together and use our energies to make it happen.

Wild Bill, I read the post from your son. Your family has and is doing a lot for Camp Fire. Your kid is smart. I also must tell you the kids were much better behaved the other night than alot of the adults.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Wild Bill

35

Thank you kerri now that is how you bring people together. The adults are just frustrated about being lied to. They all want to help Camp Fire most there have just lost confidence in the board. We came to the meeting to try and save Cimarron and see what the board was all about. They did not make a good impression on me, but there is still time for them to fix this situation. I welcome all of your comments even though it started to turn into name calling. Now how do we turn this into a win-win situation?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:25 pm
Simon

36

Then quit smashing the organization. I know that you have Friends that want to help Cimarron. So do so and do so with more than words. Get a crew out there to get everyting working the way it should to get to standard. It may take a year. What is a year when your kids are offered a summer at another camp.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Wild Bill

37

Good idea Simon now stand with us also to ask the board again to let us do that. We have already asked and been turned down. That was part of the proposal last night.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Simon

38

You were turned down for what? Open Camp?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Wild Bill

39

Are you saying we would be welcome to goto Cimarron and fix the problems?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Simon

40

All I am saying is get a crew together and fix it.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Wild Bill

41

Ok I can try and get that done. What will the board need from us to give us permission to do that?
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Regina

42

Ohhhh Simon, you should watch what you accuse Wild Bill of. His son has been to Camp Cimarron many times to participate in service projects in the last three years. Read Jared’s post and just apply it to Wild Bill’s son. Wild Bill had to pay for his son to participate in overnights where we performed service projects. So for him it hasn’t been just about money, he has shown his fair share of parental support.

Also Simon, a group of kids and adults have tried to spend spring break at camp, not only fixing problems, but doing a fund raiser as well. We were flat turned down by the office. They do not want anyone out at camp and they told the kids “we would be glad to hear about any fundraisers that have nothing to do with Cimarron”. You cannot publically ask these kids to help you and then turn around and tell in private you don’t want the help.

We are open to suggestions on how to help Camp Fire. If they won’t accept the help what do we do then?
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:55 am
Miss Vi

43

Perhaps there will be some of you who remember me. I was executive director for over 20 years and Camp DaKaNi director for 16 years. Both my girls grew up in Camp Fire and attended both Camp DaKaNi and Camp Cimarron. In fact, my younger daughter directed Camp DaKaNi for 9 years.

It is very disturbing to me that so many untruths and omissions are being stated by Wild Bill and others. I will not even try to answer these; I know they would fall on deaf ears. These comments ane very destructive and painful. This is the first and only time you will find me on this site.

I take great exception to Wild Bill classifying the Board of Directors as “incompetent” and “stooges.” I find this to be insulting to the adult members of Camp Fire who elected these people who were nominated at the Annual Meeting of the Council. These are fine, hard-working volunteers,who serve without compensation. Many of them do not even have children who reap the benefits of the organization, but they serve because they believe in the good that Camp Fire does for the community. It is a well-rounded board, made up of business people and others who desire to see the programs of Camp Fire flourish in this community. They do not deserve these ugly labels.

I believe the people who elected the present board were very discerning in electing who they did, and not electing two or three other nominees, including Mrs. Wild Bill.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:26 pm
roadrunr

44

Wild Bill,

The mudslinging on this site is absurd!!!
The Heart of Oklahoma council was very fortunate to have Camp Cimarron and Camp DaKaNi.

You stated “We are not against meeting other Camp Fire members, but I thought the reason we had a residential Camp is so our Camp Fire group could spend summer at our camp (much closer than Tulsa) and we could recruit new members for our Camp Fire organization”.

That is however not the reason they have a residential camp. A residential camp is simply a camp that youth stay overnight at, with different activities throughout the day. And these camps must be safe. A research by the American Camping Association “showed that parents have very definitive perceptions of the value of camp for their children, believing developmental value is important - social and emotional growth - but this is secondary to providing their children with Safe and Secure facilities, along with positive and fun activities. If camp Cimarron cannot provide this then it must be closed until it can”. (http://www.acacamps.org/media_center/camp_trends/fact.php)

I was a camper at Cimarron and I must say that I was shocked to see what it looked like some twenty five years later when taking my friends daughters out there. And they travel from eastern Oklahoma to go to Cimarron and have also attended Waluhili.

Yes there are people to blame for this but we should be way past the blame stage. As you know there is an Interim Executive Director need I say more. The fact is the board knows there is a problem and from what I understand they did not put the blame on anyone else. There has been miss management from the top down, and they have to take steps to correct the problem and one of those involved closing Cimarron for the summer. This gives them the chance to repair Cimarron and make it greater and grander than ever. So instead of pointing fingers I challenge all of you to find a way to work together to solve the issue’s and or help repair the damage done by the mismanagement of employees who are no longer there.

Christie
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Regina

45

Ok Christie, you aren’t listening to us either. I know that Camp Cimarron has been neglected for more than a couple of years. I don’t blame just the sitting board for that, nor do I think that they alone can take blame for closing it this year. However, they have been offered help over and over recently and keep turning it down. Not only my self and the kids, but other adults have offered the board help in various ways. How are they “trying to fix the problems”, if they won’t even accept help.

Miss Vi, I have always respected you, and I think you know that, but I’m not Mrs. Wild Bill. I’m Mrs. Big Mike. There has been a wide range of things discussed on this blog, but if you go back and read my comments, you should find it hard to disprove anything I said. Don’t believe I went to the board in July 2005, ask them. I personally called Wild Bill to tell him the board did not receive compensation. If you disbelieve anything Jared said, you should ask around.

This may be ugly, but getting to the root of any issue usaully is. I was in the room when they counted the votes from this years anuall meeting and I know that they threw out as many votes as they could. In the end only a handful of votes, other than board members, were even counted. You’re passionate about Camp Fire but you have to realize we all are. We need to get passed all the bull and get to figuring out how to fix the problems.

My whole point in this thing is that they advertised Camp Cimarron would be open in the candy brochure and then welched on these kids. Miss Vi, I don’t believe in my heart of hearts that you would have ever done that.
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:24 pm
BigMike

46

my familly and I are working dillegently at try to open Camp Cimarron for this summer. As part of the Friends of Cimarron, we were part of the proposal to lease Cimarron and open it ourselves, we were denied. As a parent of a CC Rider, as was stated above, we proposed to have a fundraiser AND work on repairing Camp, again we was denied. Long before any of this information was made public our group and our familly have been ridiculed and called names (SSWT), when there were obvious improprieties going on (”misapropriation of funds”) my wife was attacked for bringing this to the boards attention (which goes against federal ‘whistle-blower’ statutes). we have tried and tried to discretely resolve these problems but have been ostricized for this.
Everybody says lets work for the Camp, but the Board has blocked ALL of our proposals.

Mr Bones
March 24th, 2007 at 2:30 am
roadrunr

47

From what I understand the help was offered only on condition that the camp was leased and when asked if the help would be available without condition the answer was they would have to see. I think the help needs to be offered without condition if truly interested in helping.
March 24th, 2007 at 7:40 am
Wild Bill

48

Why should help be only given without condition? Does Camp Fire plan on giving candy away without the condition that people pay for it? Try to use that argument with the United Way. Tell the United Way to give Camp Fire money without putting any conditions on how that money is spent. When people spend their time, money, and effort they would like to see a return on their investment.
March 24th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Regina

49

Christie,

That is an untruth. The kids offered to give their spring break up to do service projects and a benefit ride. They made nothing conditional to camp being leased. They even offered to pay to be there, like a regular rental, even though no other CF group has to do that. They just wanted to help improve camp and raise funds. I am not at on Jared’s computer right now or I would post the fundraising proposal from the kids.
March 24th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Nancy Kenderdine

50

Let’s talk a little about “The Friends of Cimarron, Inc.”; a group that incorporated a few years ago just so it could bypass having to work with the Heart of Olahoma Council of Camp Fire. I have no doubt you love Camp Cimarron, and that you are saddened by the fact it has to close this year. I have no doubt that you sold candy so your kids could go to Cimarron , and even thought there really was no bad faith in the decision, I understand why you are upset with the timing of the decision. But has it occurred to you that if FOC, INC had been willing to work all these years with and through Camp Fire for the betterment of Cimarron, rather than working entirely separately, and isolated from CF’s imput, this problem might have been avoided? Maybe then, for example, the “evil” CF Board could have steered the group in the direction of some badly needed Cimarron expensive repairs rather than your having wasted at least part of your funds on a bulding that serves no purpose other than as a counselor hangout.
Where was the Friends of Cimarron, Inc. corporation prior to the current crisis when suddenly it came out of the woodwork and tried to take over the CF board so it could save Cimarron at the cost of the rest of the CF program….which serves a lot more kids than just Cimarron campers?
Regina, your kinda late, kinda litle incomplete proposal to lease Cimarron and operate it this summer wasn’t “rejected” by the board. My understanding is that it was tabled until FOC, INC answered a few more important questions……little questions like who is going to pay to bring the Camp up to a safe condition? Or like, do you realize that if FOC, Inc. is operating the camp, you can;t even mention Cam Fire in your brochures, and you would have to have disclaimers in everything so that CF wouldn’t be liable if something happened while Cimarron is being operated by a separate corporation? At least one member of your group has stated on this site that camp is inherently dangerous. That’s not Camp Fire’s philosophy. You really can’t expect Cf to turn the camp over to a group they know so little about. Who will be the director? Do you even run background checks on your board or the counselors? What will your safety rules be? Who is your membership? etc., etc., etc..
I am sure that your offer to work to improve Cimarron was appreciated; but somebody has to buy the wood, hire the certified electricians and plumbers, pay for the sewer pipe and the new sinks and toilets,, pay for the pool motors, pay for the gravel, buy the freezer, etc. Clearly, once that is done, CF could run Cimarron this summer for the same amount shown in the FOC, INC budget proposal. So again, you are ignoring the hard issues. If FOC, Inc is willing to donate enough money to really pay for all that is needed to bring Cimarron up to standard, you don’t need to lease it; CF could open its Camp Fire camp. That’s what is meant by working with and supporting Camp Fire! Dakani supporters recently contributed enough money to completely refurbish the Dakani ranger house in the hope that the board will be able to get Dakani a ranger after a two year absence of one; and they ran those earmarked funds through CF with no problems. Of course, Dakani supporters aren’t a separate corporation. Of course, as a separate corporation, you don’t seem to need CF’s permission to hold a fund raiser, so it seems to me saying you were rejected in those efforts is kind of a lame excuse? Just maybe (I don’t know, I’m just speculating since I am not a board member and haven’t been on the board for over ten years[ and I didn't get to vote at annual meeting either because the bylaws are pretty specific]), but maybe the CF board is not now welcoming FOC, Inc’s move to control Cimarron because they are aware that it wasn’t CF who started or maintained for so many years a somewhat adversarial relationship between the two groups? Maybe, too, the board realizes that there are some serious legal and financial issues to be resolved before anyone opens Cimarron. Just a thought!
March 24th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Nancy Kenderdine

51

Gee, I haven’t posted in 2 days, but my last try was spam blocked. Guess that means I’m posting too fast if I disagree with the owners? That’s only fair since you own the blog….it is your opinion place. LOL

This part is added by me Wild Bill the site owner. Nancy, once your comments make it into the spam blocker, from then on it will more than likely be put in the spam blocker again. Excuse me for sleeping and not spending all my time checking the 400 spams in the spam blocker for your one ignorant comment. I don’t give a crap whether you disagree with me. I have never since I started this site deleted one comment because someone disagreed with me. So comment all you want and enjoy your fantasy that I delete comments because you are so smart and I can’t debate your ignorant assumptions.
March 24th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Simon

52

WOW. I guess I am not sure who the FOC,INC really is. Can someone explain? Is this a separte organization? I thought this was about Camp Fire.
March 25th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Nancy Kenderdine

53

Wild Bill: It occurs to me that perhaps your rude and abusive personality is one reason you aren’t given more credibility at meetings (if you aren’t). I have never said you deleted my comments, (just that I was spam blocked, and that I didn’t intentionally delete any), and I certainly never claimed to be smarter than anyone who has posted on this site. (that’s your fantasy). As a very OLD person, I am tempted to say that perhaps you should grow up and debate like an adult rather than calling people who disagree with you ignorant (and worse) and putting words in their mouths.
March 25th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Simon

54

Now that I have read some of your other things that you have on this site, not just about camp or Camp Fire, I understand. You are just a rebel and you have “no reason” about you. Your “podcasts” are the exact reason why people won’t listen to you. GROW UP!!!!!!!!
March 25th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Wild Bill

55

Yeah nobody listens to my podcasts, all 5,500 of the people that have downloaded them. I better give up cause Simon doesn’t like me. Thanks for the advice Simon you should probably be a life coach. :w00t:
March 25th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
Regina

56

Nancy,

Obviously there is a large amount of confusion about Friends of Cimarron and what they have done out at camp.

(1) Their main focus for several years has been the lodge. Last time I checked not only did the kids use the lodge, but rental groups often used the lodge as well.

(2) Every member of Friends of Cimarron that attended the annual reunion, also registered as Camp Fire members. As we all know adult members of Camp Fire are all subject to background checks.

(3) Camp Fire has needed money for Cimarron several times, and each time FOC has provided that. FOC has helped with plumbing needs, dirt work, and most recently was asked to replace the doors on the back of the lodge. We agreed to replace the doors before the closure of camp, however we have now voted to wait and see what they decide to do with camp. One of the reasons for this decision is someone has covered the doors with wood for now.

(4) Just to clarify the “motors” at the pool, which we call pumps, were replaced last year. They are in bad repair now, because no one winterized the pool, or took care of the brand new pumps. The pumps were replaced with a donation from individual, not funds from Camp Fire.

(5) There is a brand new freezer housed in Daisy Hill that I personally donated last year. Moving it to the Canodge is not that big of an issue.

(6) The people that were denied the ability to fundraise were not FOC, but the cc riders who wanted to help out. They are kids, and members of Camp Fire. FOC does not have any youth members, alumni of Camp Cimarron only.

I can’t speak for the rest of FOC, but I did not “come out of the woodwork” when the current crisis came to light. As I have said several times, I went to the board in July 2005 and tried to tell them they were in trouble. I was told it was nothing to be concerned about. The ED at the time told the board it was all fabricated, however in hind sight, what I said was true, and the board should have looked a little harder at what was going on.
March 25th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Simon

57

Well, Wild Bill. I have dedicated my life to working with kids. I want kids to be true and real. I am still wondering what the FOC is. You have not answered me on that.
March 25th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Regina

58

Simon,

FOC is an organization of alumni from Camp Cimarron. Anyone who has been a camper or a counselor out at Camp Cimarron can join. They have in the past given not only money, but of their time as well to Camp Cimarron. Many of them volunteer each summer at camp as counselors. I don’t know why people on this blog are making a big deal about it being a seperate intity than Camp Fire USA. The national CF orgainzation itself has an alumni organization, not to mention that other councils have seperate alumni organizaitons.
March 25th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Wild Bill

59

Simon, I think Regina has answered your question about FOC. I am not a member of FOC so ask somebody who is or check their website. I’m glad you have dedicated your life to working with kids, make sure you lead them in the right direction.
March 25th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Simon

60

Hum, well I guess the FOC is not where I want to be. Like I said, I love children and I would not subject my child to the conditions of the camp. Please look at the ramifications of if FOC were to run the camp with no insursance and an accident happen. What would happen then? Who would be responsible? I know that the decision came at a bad time but you have to look at the whole picture. I find it amusing that there are only a handful of people responding to these comments. Where are all of the die-hard Cimarron people? My days are done with this. My time is better spent else-where. Good luck on your brigade.
March 26th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Cody

61

…good lord.

As much as Camp Cimarron was losing money, and not supporting itself - I seriously doubt the camp will be sold anytime soon. There are actions being taken by the directors to fund the camp through charitable means.

Most of the money was mishandled through the previous years by Debbie, and once I had received word she had been fired - I knew there was something going down at the camp.

However, Regina, would you like to meet up with me for lunch? Been a while since I’ve last spoken with you, and I’d like to be filled in on the events surrounding Cimarron, that hasn’t made it’s way to me yet.

- Mr. Evo
March 29th, 2007 at 5:49 am
Regina

62

Mr. Evo,

I’d love to meet for lunch and fill you in. I’m free on Friday for lunch. Just give me a call on my cell.

Regina
March 29th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Cody

63

I will, not sure on how soon I can though… I’m working nights still.
March 31st, 2007 at 5:44 am

Camp Fire Kids Protest Camp Cimarron’s Closing

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