Camp Fire USA’s Heart of Oklahoma Council Exploiting Children?
**A Passionate America Exclusive**
Oklahoma Camp Fire kids will not be spending their summer vacation hiking, swimming, horseback riding, and learning about leadership at Camp Cimarron this year. Many of the Camp Fire kids work very hard selling candy each year to help pay for the costs of their summer camp. This year the decision to close Camp Cimarron was made even before the the candy sale money was counted. What is most despicable about this situation is how the Heart of Oklahoma Council Board Of Directors attempted to shift the blame on the cancellation of summer camp at Camp Cimarron onto the members and kids that spend so much of their time raising money for the organization.
A staff writer for The Oklahoman, Tricia Pemberton wrote on The Oklahoman’s daily blog:
“Council President Edna Stinnett and Interim Executive Director Phyllis Morris told area members in a letter that a budget shortfall and poor candy sales caused what they hope will be a temporary closure.(link)”
The budget shortfall is the responsibility of the Board Of Directors, and is the true cause of the closing of Camp Cimarron. The decision to close the camp was made before the candy sale money was counted, however this did not stop the Council from encouraging Camp Fire kids to sell candy in exchange for the chance to goto camp this year as many of them had in prior years.
Many of the Camp Fire kids wrote letters to Council President Edna Stinnett expressing their disappointment. Here is a copy of one of the letters that was sent to Council President Edna Stinnett by one of the Camp Fire kids:
To Edna Stinnett,
Cc: All Active Board MembersIn my eleven years in Camp Fire I have gone to both DaKaNi and Cimarron. Both impacted my life but Cimarron has had a bigger impact. I would hate to see either camp close, and I’m very concerned about your recent decision to not open Camp Cimarron this summer. Furthermore, I’m concerned that the board continues to cover up their intentions for the future of this council.
To allow children to sale candy in the ice and freezing weather is unforgivable. I did not sell candy this year because of this issue and many others. I saw this closure coming a mile away, however I feel very sorry for those children who sold candy this year and think you and the rest of the board that voted to close Cimarron should be ashamed of yourselves. This organization is meant to teach children to become “Tomorrows Leaders”, and you are setting a terrible example. Exploitation is the word I looked up in the thesaurus for what you have done. Voting two days after candy sales were complete, and before final money was turned in, is at the very least not something you should be proud of.
Years ago Camp Fire Girls here in central Oklahoma had 10,000+ members. The fact that we are now down to less than a thousand child members is concerning. How an organization that was that strong could go down in twenty years to the point it is at, reflects directly on the Board of Directors. It will from this day forward reflect directly on this Board of Directors that YOU are responsible for the disbandment of Camp Cimarron, a 70 year tradition.
(emphasis added by me)
I am currently investigating this story even more. I have uncovered much more information and will be posting more about this as information comes in. I hope the Camp Fire kids can save Camp Cimmarron or find another place to hold summer camp this year. I want to help the Camp Fire kids goto camp if you would like to help please leave a comment, send me an email, and get the word out about this situation.
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Regina
I will miss Cimarron with all of my heart. To think it won’t be there for my children this summer is devistating. I hope the board of directors is ashamed of themselves, they should be. I have a 15 yo responsible, respectful kid that has been greatly impacted by this camp.
March 15th, 2007 at 8:08 pmMelissa Miracle
The following was written 3/12/07 in response to the blog posted (mentioned/linked above) by Tricia Pemberton, staff writer for the Daily Oklahoman.
Comment from: Melissa Miracle [Visitor] ·
http://www.campcimarron.com
I would suggest to this reporter that she dig a little deeper for the real reasons Camp Cimarron is closing for summer 2007, or, as is well known, will be closed and sold to pay a recently acquired loan against the council’s Oklahoma City facility, Camp Dakini.
The actions taken recently by the Heart of Oklahoma Council to shut down Camp Cimarron, and to silence young Camp Fire members that are speaking out against the closure, are disturbing and ethically questionable for an organization which believes they are producing “today’s kids, tomorrow’s leaders”, and promoting “integrity, responsibility, and tolerance”.
If the intent is to merely shut camp down for the summer, why have they removed all mention of Camp Cimarron from their web site?
http://www.campfireusa-ok.org/camping.htm
Camp Fire USA is a wonderful organization, and my daughter has benefited from having been involved. However, the recent decisions and actions of the certain council leaders and board members have her wondering if they understand the meaning of integrity and responsibility.
Melissa Miracle
March 16th, 2007 at 5:59 pm03/12/07 @ 22:16
Wild Bill
Thank you Regina and Melissa Miracle for telling your story.
March 16th, 2007 at 6:08 pmroadrunr
Hello all. I have been setting here reading this and these children are not being exploited and for anyone to suggest this, is preposterous. These children that attend cimarron will have to opportunity to attend another camp that will open them up to new experieces. What better way to create leaders of tomorrow by expanding their horizons.It seems to me that these children will still experience something good and be rewarded in the same way, plus they will have to opportunity to meet other children and have other experiences that otherwise they would not have.
It seems to me that the counsel is trying to rectify the situation the best that they can and instead of attacking them why not join forces and work together to work this out, after all isnt that what camp fire is about.
I was a member of Camp Fire as a child and wouldnt trade the memories for anything. I however feel that the safety of the children must come first and once those issues are taken care of then those memories can continue.
March 22nd, 2007 at 12:29 amWild Bill
I attended the Board meeting and the majority of the Board Of Directors are incompetent.
A nine year old girl that was at the meeting was told she should spend more time selling candy instead of making protest signs. Interim Executive Director Phyllis Morris said at the meeting that we had an obligation to sell candy to save the board. I understand that the board is needed to fix this problem, but Mrs. Morris is sadly mistaken if she thinks we have an obligation to save a board that got us into the situation that we are in right now. And the boards shameless blaming of low candy sales as the one of the reasons that Camp Fire is closing is disgusting.
We are in Camp Fire for our kids and to help the Council provide programs for our kids. If the council wants to prove their commitment to saving Camp Fire I suggest they waive their salaries and compensation until the budget shortfall is overcome. I will personally stand out in front of Wal-Mart to raise money to save Camp Fire, but their is no way I will give that money to pay for the incompetence of some of the members of this Board. I want to save Camp Fire and will do everything in my power to help solve it’s problems. Problem number one is the majority of the people on the Board Of Directors.
I am willing to goto Camp Cimarron and donate my time to fix all of the problems that you claim are making it unsafe. Friends of Cimarron were willing to raise all the money to pay for improvements and open summer camp this year and from the response from the Board I realized that the Board has no intention of entertaining this idea. It is my belief that the Board is looking to take out loans on some of the properties, this would be a huge mistake. How will you pay those loans when you have chased off the remains 900 Camp Fire members.
The members are your biggest asset. We are your customers and the people that donate our time and effort to raise money for Camp Fire. Most of the Board made it perfectly clear that they think we are a joke and that the most important part of Camp Fire is it’s Board Of Directors. I am willing to help the board fix it’s problems. First realize who Camp Fire’s customers are, then ask them what you can do for them in exchange for their help in raising funds. We can save Camp Fire and I am not giving up. People have no obligation to save the organization, but they will put in their time, effort, and money to save an organization that gives a value to it’s members. Your job as a Board is to provide that value not demand our efforts for no return on our part.
Will the Board Of Directors work for free until the budget shortfall has been overcome?
March 22nd, 2007 at 3:12 pmWild Bill
Nancy Kenderdine, Cimarron did not cause the budget shortfall, the Board Of Directors did. One of the major over expenditures you are referring to at Camp Cimarron is the pool that someone failed to winterize. The Friends Of Cimarron have offered to donate our time and raise the funds to repair the pool. We were denied. The estimate the council got for repairs to the pool was extremely inflated. I believe it was something like $41,000. I have heard that the pool could be repaired for about $1000. Give us a list of the other repairs that need to be done and we will do everything we can to fix them.
Instead of the board laughing, making fun of, and turning down all of our ideas maybe they should work with us like you suggest.
What unsafe environment? Camping itself is an unsafe environment. Does the council propose that we cut all the trees down at camp so a limb won’t fall on a child’s head? Point out the unsafe environment and we will fix it. The council is making up excuses instead of working to find solutions.
March 22nd, 2007 at 5:31 pmkerri
The board members do work for free. They are not compensated for their time. There are many on that board who have put in many, many hours over the past few months. They are competent, smart, and passionate about ALL of Camp Fire.(These people also have full time jobs and families).
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:00 pmOur council’s employees are overworked and underpaid. They have families to support and they are not the reason Camp Fire is having difficulties. You want them to give up their salaries?
I think once again Mrs. Morris was misquoted. She did not say she sells candy to save the board. I am not suprised at this misquote since the majority of the adults that were protesting were visiting and laughing amongst themselves during the meeting.
Mr. “Wild Bill” did you notice the lack of support for the Camp Fire program. (Kids admittedly not selling candy, no participation in groups or clubs, even a mom stating she doesn’t care about Camp Fire, only Cimarron.)
I do not believe the board treated the protestors as a joke. However, I do believe the behavior and comments of many of those protesting at the meeting was inappropriate and rude.
The board is made up of people from many different professions. It is a highly compentent board and I am disappointed that you did not report any of things that have already been accomplished. I also think one of our board members did an wonderful job acknowleding the kids and explaining to them what was going on. Oh but maybe you missed that since many of the adults were talking, laughing, and rolling their eyes.
Regina
Nancy,
Let us address this in the same order that you did. (1) The loan was not for Camp DaKaNi, but against it, as in a mortgage against the property. The shortfall was not new last summer or caused by Cimarron. I personally went to the board with budget problems in July 2005. Camp Fire USA had withheld money from their employee’s paychecks for flex care spending, however they had failed to foward that money to the 3rd party company that administered the flex care spending account. They were also having problems paying their utilities and credit card bills at that time. So these problems are not new, very old, and have nothing to do with Cimarron. (2) I have no issue with them needing to take a summer off at Cimarron. I do however have issue with them allowing kids to believe they are selling candy to attend the camp of their choice. If CF needed to regoup, they should have let the kids know before the candy sale. (3) I understand that they are offering a camp they think is comparable, but my son who whill be a CIT, even if he had sold his fair share this year will pay $350 to attend vs. $168 in 2006 at Cimarron. So not only is there a loyalty issue with this, there is also a monetary and distance issue for everyone involved.
As far as the council going under, if you were there Tuesday night you know that Jan said that United Way may not fund us for another year due to the problems at hand. However the board is having 4 or 5 different assessments on their properties in case they want to take out loans against them. They stated that if United Way didn’t fund them that they would need to disolve immediately. THIS BOARD SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TAKE LOANS AGAINST ANY MORE PROPERTIES. If you don’t have money in the bank, you don’t go buy a new car and create a new loan. This board is financial irresponsible and needs to resign.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:08 pmWild Bill
Nancy Kenderdine $75,000 is an extremely over inflated number that is being used by the board to justify their decision to close the camp. From your list rotting floors seem to be the most expensive repair needed. I can fix a floor. I have no paycheck being a stay-at-home father. If I had money I’m sure the board and the Executive Director would love for me to turn it over to them so they can put it into their hemroging accounts.
The mis-information and half truths are coming from the board. National will probably have to sell the camp because of the debt that the board is creating. How much money can the board borrow against Camp Cimarron? They have already Spent most of the $200,000 they borrowed against Camp DaKaNi. I hear the bank is still waiting for the 2005 tax return that was supposed to be provided for that loan. I hope embezzlement is not uncovered after the investigation is complete.
March 22nd, 2007 at 6:59 pmRegina
Nancy,
I’m not upset with the board for their slow response. I am upset with the board for the lack of response. I went to the board in July 2005 with concerns about the finances. It was the same problems that they discovered in September 2006. If they had investigated them properly in July 2005 we would be in much better shape right now. This board keeps blaming everyone but themselves including the kids.
As far as the bad publicity, there is an easy way to turn this around. There is not a single one of us that is not willing to help out Camp Fire, not just Cimarron but the whole council. This board needs to come clean about the extent and of the problems, the plan and accept help. The kids offered to do a fund raiser during their spring break, including working out at camp, and were turned down by the office.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:12 pmNancy Kenderdine
I surrender! Clearly you have all the answers and are not interested in actual facts. I’m outta here!
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:22 pmWild Bill
Once again Nancy you try to blame something that the council is responsible for (bad publicity) on other people. Who are these mysterious FORMER employees that you say are responsible for the bad fiscal management last year. The Board had an opportunity to turn this into good publicity and they failed to do so. They still have the option. If there is no way to open Camp Cimarron this year then let us know what we can do to open it next year. We will do everything we can to make it happen and help a board that helps us.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:23 pmWild Bill
Goodbye Nancy, thanks for the debate.
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:30 pmbecky
I have been reading these posts for two days. What happened to Nancy’s factual statements. Did you delete them? If so, are you scared of the facts?
March 22nd, 2007 at 7:46 pmjason k.
Hey!! What’s the deal? Are you deleting blogs that don’t agree with you? What happened to Nancy Kenderdine’s posts? It seems to me you only want your side to be read. Your actions speak. Maybe Nancy is right and you know it. This is web site is a joke.
March 22nd, 2007 at 8:10 pmSimon
Hey, I just posted. Where is my “blog”? You are a joke
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:15 pmWild Bill
Ask Nancy where her comments are, the comment poster and me are the only people that can delete comments. I have not deleted one comment from the Camp Fire posts. Once again the board stooges are making up lies to discredit people and not take responsibility for their own actions.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 pmkerri
I am on the phone with her right now and she definetly did not delete her comments.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:30 pmWild Bill
I have the logs that prove she did ask her why she is a liar!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 pmShadowFox
Say there BeckyJason, I know you like to pump yourself up on other boards but no matter how many names you post under, your IP stays the same genius. Or should I just call you Kerri?
Hey Bill, you think are libs are schizos or just this guy?
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:40 pmWild Bill
The board is full of moonbats, I was there and they are almost outright communists. :w00t:
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:42 pmNancy Kenderdine
Well, I’m back. I cetainly did not intentionally delete my posts. After my “farewell” post was spam-blocked three times, I did click on the “don’t notify me of new postings” box on the admin. site…..maybe like everything else, they got that message wrong also!
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:44 pmWild Bill
Glad you caught that ShadowFox Kerri/jason has the same IP address. You people can’t even tell the truth on a comment section and I was there the other night when the lying didn’t stop.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:45 pmWild Bill
They could be all huddled together around the same computer at the Camp Fire office. They have different email addresses. :w00t:
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:46 pmWild Bill
Well Nancy I’ll give you that you might not have intentionally deleted your comments but someone at your IP address did. :pinch:
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 pmShadowFox
*L* I’ve actually had a troll claim that when I busted his “army of one” with the ip logs. Even then when they all use the exact same inflections, the exact same punctuation and the exact same screeching tones it kinda makes for a case even Matlock couldn’t defend against.
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:54 pmNancy Kenderdine
Like I said, if I did delete my posts, it certainly wasn’t intentional. I have carefully refrained from calling you a liar. Too bad you can’t show the same courtesy. However, since you think everyone who disagrees with you is a board stooge, and since you are claiming that becky and jason have the same IP as Kerri….a person I know and trust who did not post as either Becky or Jason, i do have to wonder just what is going on here. Bottom line for me…….all you want to do is rant, and it is getting crazy. Too bad people even visit this site.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:05 pmWild Bill
heather roberts : IP 70.137.10.156
kerri : IP 70.137.10.156
jason k. : IP 70.137.10.156
Do you want screen shot to prove it also? :ninja:
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:10 pmNancy Kenderdine
I wouldn’t know what an ip address was if it hit me in the face (not that computer literate). But it seems to me that someone who can locate them must have access to the administrative site and could clearly manipulate it however he or she wanted to . I trust Kerri. She did not post as either jason or heather….so someone is playing games with your site, and the ip addresses and its not us. But why should you believe us since we are all “board stoogies and liars….Right!
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:28 pmWild Bill
Nancy I own this site I can do almost anything I want in the background. One thing I cannot do is manipulate incoming IP addresses. Do I need to run a trace and find where the IP address is located? You might want to join the comment thread on this post. We seem to be finally coming to a win-win situation.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:36 pmNancy Kenderdine
Wild Bill. Correction: My mistake…. Kerri did post a heather on the other post because you have blocked her as Kerri…..but she did not post as Jason or Becky. That’s all I have to say on the subject.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:55 pmWild Bill
I didn’t block her sometimes if a commenter posts very quickly the spam catching software flags it as spam. I have recovered all comments that have made it into the spam filter. I get about 400-1000 spam comments and trackbacks a day so the filter is pretty tough on what it considers spam.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:00 pmroadrunr
Just for those who asked her is Nancy’s post:
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:32 amNancy Kenderdine // Mar 21, 2007 at 7:35 pm
There is so much mis-information being �blogged� about the closing of Cimarron . Just three examples:(1). The �loan� referred to was not used for Camp Dakani; it was used for a CAMP FIRE operating budget shortfall caused , unfortunately, primarily because of the overexpenditures needed to repair and operate Cimarron last summer. (2) The decision to close this year was the only way to keep the Camp Fire program intact, because the expenditures needed to be made (for health and safety) before camp could open were beyond the ability of the Council to meet this year�..because of the debt incurred by Cimarron last summer. (3). This is a Camp Fire resident camp; and the council has arranged for all former Cimarron kids to get an excellent resident Camp Fire camping experience this sunmer at a nerby Tulsa resident CAMP FIRE camp�.how is that exploitation? People don�t seem to realize that if the OKC Council goes under because of overexpenditures at Cimarron; Cimarron is also gone. Camp Fire is looking for ways to save it and raise money for needed physical plant refurbishing. We can NOT put children in an unsafe environment. Give me a break and think with your heads, not just your �I love Cimarron� hearts. There is no bad faith here.
Nancy Kenderdine
Lisa
This whole situation is so unfortunate. I just stumbled into this mess because I was looking up camp information for my daughter. believe it or not, I am completely naive and unbiased,
I am not sure what happened with Cimarron but there is obviously multiple management issues - from money taken out if employees checks for flex spending and then not sent in, to bills not being paid, to major decisions such as camp closings not being communicated.
I am sure that the focus for everyone is on the children. But, the lack of professionalism shown is outrageous. In particular, for Nancy (who seems to have a management position) to respond when she obviously being baited into an argument - and then her staff respond using the same IP address. You may not know what it is technically, but you surely understand that it is like a phone number coming up in caller id.
Anyway, the whole thing stinks. The political and cultural environment is toxic and I cannot, in good conscience place my daughter in this situation where the focus is NOT on the safety and welfare of the children.
It’s too bad because she has been for the last three years.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:16 pmKathryn M.
So far, from what I have read, the issue regarding Camp Cimarron has diminished to nonsense. Wild Bill and everyone else seems to get off of the point several times. The point is that Cimarron is in trouble and that is that. It is ridiculous that many of you start to claim each other as liars and whatnot and argue like children. Many of you may wonder why such a problem exists in Camp Fire, well when people start to argue about dumb things, nothing is accomplished. I’m fifteen years old and I can have a discussion without it turning into a who’s right and who’s wrong contest. My advice for you is to get your act together and act like adults.
June 14th, 2007 at 4:50 pm